No 1116 Posted by fw, August 06, 2014
“[For the past weeks I’ve been looking at the] previous fact-finding missions. So, they’re all out there. Same kinds of attacks are occurring now on homes, schools, hospital, U.N. premises. None of this appears to me to be accidental. There’s been clear warnings issued to Israel by these very eminent commissions of inquiry, plus follow-up commissions of inquiry, and therefore I would say that they appear to be defying, deliberate defiance of obligations that international law imposes on Israel.” —Navi Pillay, UN’s senior human rights official
John Dugard, international law expert and former U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in Palestine, and Kenneth Roth, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch, find that Israel’s claims and justifications in defence of its military action in Gaza, as well as in selected other policies and practices against Palestinians in general, do not stand up to legal scrutiny. With close to 1,900 dead from Israel’s month-long assault on Gaza, Human Rights Watch is calling on Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to seek International Criminal Court jurisdiction over potential war crimes committed on and from Palestinian territory. HRW says both Israeli forces and Palestinian militants committed war crimes.
Dugard and Roth offer their expert evidence during an interview on today’s Democracy Now broadcast, Click on the following linked title to watch the interview and access the segment’s transcript. Alternatively, below is a 9:00-minute embedded version of the video, followed by an abridged transcript. Added subheadings, highlighted text and hyperlinks to external sources are also included.
Palestinian foreign minister non-committal on reasons for his visit to International Criminal Court
RIYAD AL-MALIKI – video clip — Yes, I did meet the prosecutor. For us, it was very important just, you know, to get acquainted with the work of the ICC and what is really being required for Palestine to get access to, to put its signature to the Rome Statute and to become member of the ICC, because what has really happened recently against the Palestinian people in Gaza, atrocities committed by Israel, required immediate reaction from us. And so, here we are, you know, ready to ask questions, to be prepared for the next step.
AMY GOODMAN — Can you talk about the whole issue of the International Criminal Court?
Confusion surrounds Palestine’s status vis-à-vis the ICC
JOHN DUGARD — Palestine is not a party to the Rome Statute. And in order to become a full member of the court, it would have to become a party to the Rome Statute. It can, however, make a declaration accepting the jurisdiction of the court for crimes committed in Gaza at a particular time, and that has not yet been done in recent times since the General Assembly recognized Palestine as a state. But I think it’s important to realize that in 2009, following Operation Cast Lead, Palestine did submit a declaration referring all international crimes committed in Palestine to the International Criminal Court, and that was rejected early in 2012 because at that stage Palestine was not recognized as a state. But later in 2012, the General Assembly did recognize Palestine as a state.
Dugard faults prosecutor of ICC for delays in initiating proceedings against Israel and Hamas before the Court
My position is that it is possible for the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court to exercise jurisdiction, to initiate an investigation already, without any more due. And this is confirmed by the fact that in the last few weeks the minister of justice and the deputy minister of justice of Palestine have submitted documents to the International Criminal Court indicating that, as far as they are concerned, the 2009 declaration is still valid. So, I must confess that I hold the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court partly responsible for the fact that no proceedings have been initiated against Israel and Hamas before the International Criminal Court.
Israel’s policies and practices in the occupied Palestinian territories are tantamount to apartheid, as defined by the 1973 Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid
JOHN DUGARD — If I look at the situation in Palestine, which I know very well as former special rapporteur, if I look at it as a former South African, then I see very similar circumstances prevailing in Palestine as prevailed in South Africa during apartheid. But I think it’s also important to look at the situation in terms of the 1973 United Nations Convention on the Suppression of Apartheid, which defines apartheid and which applies it to situations beyond southern Africa. And essentially, it requires three conditions:
And so, if one looks at these three conditions, I think it’s clear that, in terms of the 1973 Convention on Apartheid, Israel’s policies and practices in the occupied Palestinian territory are tantamount to apartheid.
Why Israel’s “self-defence” claim is invalid
JOHN DUGARD — It’s very important for Israel that it should portray itself as the victim in the present conflict. And President Obama and both houses of Congress have endorsed the view that Israel acts in self-defense. But as I see the situation, it is very different.
Gaza is an occupied territory. It’s part of the occupied Palestinian territory. The fact that Israel has withdrawn its ground troops, or had before the present incursion, does not mean that it is no longer the occupying power, because it has always retained control, effective control, over the territory of Gaza. That’s the test in international law: effective control. Israel controls Gaza by means of the land crossings, by controlling the air space and the sea space, and by carrying out repeated incursions into the territory.
Israel is guilty of deliberately defying international law in its military attacks in Gaza, says UN human rights official
NAVI PILLAY – video clip — [For the past weeks I’ve been looking at the] previous fact-finding missions. So, they’re all out there. Same kinds of attacks are occurring now on homes, schools, hospital, U.N. premises. None of this appears to me to be accidental. There’s been clear warnings issued to Israel by these very eminent commissions of inquiry, plus follow-up commissions of inquiry, and therefore I would say that they appear to be defying, deliberate defiance of obligations that international law imposes on Israel.
And yet John Kerry, who should know better, continues to defend Israel’s right to defend itself
SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY – video clip — We fully support Israel’s right to defend itself and the fact that it was under attack by rockets, by tunnels, and it had to take action against Hamas. Hamas has behaved in the most unbelievably shocking manner of engaging in this activity. And yes, there has been horrible collateral damage as a result of that, which is why the United States worked very, very hard with our partners in the region, with Israel, with Egyptians, with the Palestinian Authority, with President Abbas, to try to move towards a ceasefire.
The self-defence argument is irrelevant; the fact remains that Israel failed to comply with the laws of war under the Geneva Conventions
KENNETH ROTH — John Kerry deliberately stresses the self-defense argument, which John Dugard just now was talking about, as well. And, you know, you can argue forever whether this was self-defense against the rocket attacks or whether it was upholding the siege of Gaza. And rather than get into that, it sort of doesn’t matter, because whether Israel was the aggressor or the defender, it has a duty to comply with the Geneva Conventions, the laws of war designed to spare civilians as much as possible the hazards of conflict. And that’s what Navi Pillay, the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, was talking about, because you can be fighting in self-defense and still committing war crimes, which is one way to characterize what Israel was doing, because merely trying to prevent the rocket attacks doesn’t justify deliberately targeting civilian structures, using methods of warfare that are indiscriminate, targeting militants when there are many, many civilians around so there will be disproportionate costs to civilians. These are all war crimes, and it doesn’t matter if ultimately you were fighting in self-defense. You can still commit war crimes. That’s what the Geneva Conventions are about. They’re kind of neutral as to who was right or wrong in the ultimate sense of aggressor or defender. They just look at how you fight the war. And both Hamas and Israel are fighting the war in blatant violations of the Geneva Conventions.
Obama should have stopped Israeli atrocities “weeks ago” but didn’t; instead he talked about self-defence and rocket attacks
KENNETH ROTH — You know, Israel says, “Oh, it’s all about human shields. We’re doing everything we can to avoid civilian casualties.” What happened in that case is there were three guys on a motorcycle whom Israel wanted to target. Now, it could have waited, you know, a minute, until they’d driven on a bit and there was no one else around, and attacked them there. No, they attacked them when they’re sitting outside of a U.N. school sheltering 3,000 displaced people. And surprise, surprise, many of those displaced people get injured and killed. So, at that point, the U.S. finally said, “We’ve had enough. This is outrageous.” They should have said that weeks ago, and that may have pushed Israel to stop these methods of warfare. But, you know, the reflex in Washington is to support Israel no matter what and to not talk about the way it’s fighting, just to talk about self-defense and to talk about the Hamas rocket attacks. And yes, you know, everybody wants to see the indiscriminate rocket attacks end, but that’s not justification for Israel itself, using these kind of indiscriminate means, killing so many hundreds and hundreds of civilians.
US may have committed war crimes; it certainly violated US law; but “don’t hold your breath on a prosecution”
KENNETH ROTH — I wouldn’t hold your breath on a prosecution. The U.S., under U.S. law, should not be sending weapons when they’re going to be used to commit war crimes. And so, if U.S. wants to send, you know, the Iron Dome anti-missile defense to Israel, nobody’s going to quarrel with that. But to continue sending Israel the kind of weapons that it’s using to commit war crimes in Gaza should stop. And, you know, there is a precedent for this. I mean, even Ronald Reagan stopped sending cluster munitions to Israel when it was using them indiscriminately in Lebanon. But President Obama, you know, isn’t going to touch that.
Both Hamas and Israel are guilty of war crimes
KENNETH ROTH — They’re both committing war crimes. Hamas’s war crime is to fire rockets which are incapable of being targeted at a military target. They’re launching them toward civilian areas like Tel Aviv. That is the war crime of firing indiscriminately. Israel itself is committing the war crimes that I outlined: deliberately targeting civilian structures; in some cases, deliberately targeting civilians; aiming at militants at moments when they’re surrounded by civilians, and you know that the civilian harm will be disproportionate; and using certain weapons, like heavy artillery, in densely populated areas, which are, like the Hamas rockets, incapable of being targeted only against militants or only against combatants.
The reason the US opposes Palestine joining the ICC is fear that its own complicity in war crimes will become an issue
JOHN DUGARD — I think it’s important to realize that under the Rome Statute, a state which assists, aids or abets a state in the commission of an international crime is also guilty. And I suspect that one of the reasons why the United States is opposed to Palestine joining the International Criminal Court is that inevitably its own complicity in these crimes will become an issue.
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